Free State Wyoming Forum
Wyoming Research and Information => General Wyoming Living Information => Topic started by: FDNYLiberty on December 21, 2010, 03:58:25 PM
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I have been reading the "Tell You Open Carrying Stories" topic with some interest. For the sake of introduction and a primer to any new (or potential) WY residents, can you please answer the the following questions.
1) Where is it NOT PERMITTED by Wy state / Federal gun laws to OC (or not permitted to Concealed Carry?), such as certain buildings, businesses?
2) Must the gun be VISIBLE at all times when open carrying? In other words, if you had your pistol in a holster on your belt, can you have a jacket or shirt over it? If the holster is still partially visible with a jacket over part of it, is this legal, or must the holster be fully visible?
3) I kept telling my better half that we will see LOTS of folks in WY open carrying, however during our entire travels in the state, we only saw one person OC'ing. Are most folks concealed carrying instead?
4) What surrounding states permit Open Carry?
Any answers / comments most appreciated. Thanks folks. :)
FDNYLiberty
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I have been reading the "Tell You Open Carrying Stories" topic with some interest. For the sake of introduction and a primer to any new (or potential) WY residents, can you please answer the the following questions.
1) Where is it NOT PERMITTED by Wy state / Federal gun laws to OC (or not permitted to Concealed Carry?), such as certain buildings, businesses?
2) Must the gun be VISIBLE at all times when open carrying? In other words, if you had your pistol in a holster on your belt, can you have a jacket or shirt over it? If the holster is still partially visible with a jacket over part of it, is this legal, or must the holster be fully visible?
3) I kept telling my better half that we will see LOTS of folks in WY open carrying, however during our entire travels in the state, we only saw one person OC'ing. Are most folks concealed carrying instead?
4) What surrounding states permit Open Carry?
Any answers / comments most appreciated. Thanks folks. :)
FDNYLiberty
OC is "allowed" pretty much wherever the property owner doesn't tell you to "leave now".
CC is "prohibited" in: Bars, most "public" (gooberment) buildings, churches (without permission) and a few others. I'd have to look up the "law" but it can be Googled...
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1) Where is it NOT PERMITTED by Wy state / Federal gun laws to OC (or not permitted to Concealed Carry?), such as certain buildings, businesses?
We honor private property, so if the owner (or manager) asks you to leave, you leave. Or if they have it posted no guns... but I've not seen one here. There are ordinary restrictions, laws and a permit for concealed carry - SHALL issue. We're hoping to go to Vermont carry soon. There is not a single word in the Wyoming statutes about open carry. It is legal everywhere except on federal property. I carry everywhere except the post office.
2) Must the gun be VISIBLE at all times when open carrying? In other words, if you had your pistol in a holster on your belt, can you have a jacket or shirt over it? If the holster is still partially visible with a jacket over part of it, is this legal, or must the holster be fully visible?
Technically, it has to be visible, period. In reality, nobody much notices or cares. If you are not causing trouble, it's not an issue. Technically again, CC without a permit is a misdemeanor.
3) I kept telling my better half that we will see LOTS of folks in WY open carrying, however during our entire travels in the state, we only saw one person OC'ing. Are most folks concealed carrying instead?
Heck if I know. >:D Quite a few have obtained the certificate from the basic pistol class I teach specifically to obtain a permit, but I don't know how many of them actually carry. Several people carry openly here in Newcastle besides me. It's not common, but it is not remarkable either.
4) What surrounding states permit Open Carry?
South Dakota, Montana, Most of Colorado (Denver is dicey and dumb), Idaho.
See this map for details: http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html
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Most people who open carry are not Brazen about it. They are there but you just didnt see them.
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3) I kept telling my better half that we will see LOTS of folks in WY open carrying, however during our entire travels in the state, we only saw one person OC'ing. Are most folks concealed carrying instead?
lol....I thought this too before I moved here, but since living here a year and a half, and having been all over the state....other than a few FSW folks, myself, my wife, and my buddy Neema, I've only ever seen one other person open carrying in Wyoming.
As for CC, the state is shall-issue, something like 3 and a half % of adults in my county (Natrona) have permits, and I'd estimate maybe 1/2 of one percent of non-criminal adults might carry without a permit (even non-freedom folks).
I'd estimate gun ownership is much higher....I'd be willing to bet well over 50% of adults in the state own a gun (especially a deer rifle), probably half of those keep a gun in their truck much of the time, but don't carry a gun on their person. I've even met several folks who always carry a handgun in their truck but never carry a gun on their person, don't see the need to, and think I'm silly for doing so.
These estimates are based on talking to a lot of different types of folks here. Your mileage may vary. Anyone who's got a different estimate, lay it on me.
MWD
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Deer season in Wyoming is something you've gotta see. Seems like everyone's dressed in camo, everywhere, even in line at the bank. People start dressing in camo a few days before the season opens, and you can feel it in the air. People dress their babies in camo!
EVERYONE is hunting. (Even many Democrats) A lot of people call in sick for work and a few businesses even shut down the first few days. It's pretty cool, and something I didn't see in Los Angeles! (It's something people would likely protest in Los Angeles.)
I used to see some of that when I was a kid in Western New York State, but can you even hunt in New York State anymore? Isn't that where the government recently hired sharpshooters to shoot deer because there were too many of them?
MWD
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What people seem to have left off here is that carrying of ANY gun in ANY federal building is prohibited. Everywhere.
Or am I wrong?
This includes
The post office
The USDA building
The Forest Service building
The ranger building
The FBI building
etc.
That's why I always remove my weapon before entering any PO. That's about my only contact with the feds.
However, carrying in the state capitol is allowed. As is the county building (treasurer, assessor, clerk).
But it appears you can NOT carry inside the actual COURTROOM here in Sundance, but within the rest of the building, like the clerk.
Mac
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I've OC'd in the Newcastle court house, they seem OK with it. You just have to be aware. Very few places object.. If a private business says no, I'm fine with that, its their choice, they own the place and they can do as they wish, just as with smoking. I just don't go along with gov. telling you where or where not you carry or smoke. Shall not infringe is easily understood and not ambiguous. Sophistry arguments to the contrary are from the dishonest. controllers thru out history, and by the disarmement elitists and hoplophobes. We have seen where that leads in many of our lifetimes, mounds of corpses.
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I've OCed in Utah and Wyoming thus far. I plan on getting a CC permit once I can get one/spare the cash, because I HATE having to take my holster off and place it on the seat/in the (open) glove compartment. It's also annoying going to the post office, but the one that bothers me the most is being prohibited from OCing when I'm at school: I'm there 12 hours a day, four days a week. I know I can CC with permission under state law, but I already know the answer to that request!
It was really nice OCing in Utah, because you can carry concealed without a permit in your vehicle, so I didn't have to dance around with my gun getting into and out of my vehicle everywhere we went in SLC--it just stayed on my hip, nice and simple. One thing about Utah is you can't have a round in the chamber, but I don't do that anyway. I'd also like to add that people in SLC were much less freaked out by me OCing than the average person in Rock Springs. I went to an aquarium, a mall, a Kia dealership (getting work done on the van) and Enterprise for a car rental: not one stare, no whispering, no bulging eyes, etc. The Enterprise guy even gave me a ride and said absolutely nothing to me about it in our long chat from there to the garage--I didn't initially take him as someone who would be happy with me OCing, but maybe Sweetwater County has given me a complex!
I think the fact that Wyo law is basically silent about OC is both a blessing and a curse. Having recently researched the Utah laws prior to our recent trip there, I like the fact that the laws there state specifically what you can do, because it makes things less confusing (I suspect most LEOs here wouldn't interpret the law's silence in exactly the way I do). For instance, in Utah, you can conceal a weapon in your vehicle at work even if your employer doesn't allow weapons on their property. In Wyoming, I have to leave it at home while I'm at work because my employer has a you're-fired-on-the-spot-if-we-catch-you-with-so-much-as-a-toothpick policy. My employment contract states that this no-weapons policy applies to me even when I'm shopping at my place of business (it's a store), which would not be allowed in Utah. And the car thing, as I mentioned above, is a big pain--that's one area where the law isn't silent about OC, as it requires you have it plainly visible. ANNOYING! Keeping my fingers crossed for Constitutional Carry...
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Lots of good info coming across here folks. Thanks. And thanks for highlighting that FED info ManFromNevada. Got to keep that one in mind, especially for less-than-evident FED property such as a Forest Service buildings. The only FEDS we have on east coast (at least where I currently live) other than the P.O. are the alphabet soup kind (FBI, DEA, BATFE, CIA, DOJ). Never even thought about the Smokey The Bear hat or Forest people.
Are you are you (now) permitted to OC or CCW in the National Parks such as Teton or Yellowstone?
JScottDavis makes some good points in his reply. Tell me JScottD, does Home Depot in Rock Springs prohibit customers that OC?
Can any of you good folks tell me if you believe WY gun laws are the best around (your state), or better in UT, MT or elsewhere around you?
I also hope that Constitutional carry becomes law in WY.
Thanks for all your help and comments . I'm getting a real (and much needed) edge-jah-ma-cation ;D
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Are you are you (now) permitted to OC or CCW in the National Parks such as Teton or Yellowstone?
FWIW...
My understanding is that the state laws pertaining to Concealed Carry are now applicable to the National Park within that state.
Open carry is still a no-no AFAIK.
I spoke at some length to a park ranger at Mesa Verda National Park, who BTW was pretty pro-gun, and was told that the area that we were being toured through was considered a "federal building" since it had a gate that was locked after we entered the area. Something about the controlled access being part of the definition.
Not that there was anything preventing anyone with the slightest imagination from leaving though.
Just one of those technicalities.
So, she was pretty clear that without some other extenuating circumstances (like the person being an a$$hole) she wouldn't say a word about someone carrying concealed in that area, if she happened to spot it.
Of course, concealed is concealed.
She did wonder why someone would want to carry in the forest but the conversation was ending at that point since the tour was starting.
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Every time I read these problems I keep wondering what part of "shall not be infringed" people don't understand.
And, it makes me glad that I'm in AZ as far as gun rights go. Without a permit, I can carry concealed or open anywhere except a Federal building. I do see a lot of restaurants that are now posting "no firearms" signs as per state law so we spread the word and tell gun owners to boycott those places.
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jscottdavis said:
I plan on getting a CC permit once I can get one/spare the cash, because I HATE having to take my holster off and place it on the seat/in the (open) glove compartment. It's also annoying going to the post office, but the one that bothers me the most is being prohibited from OCing when I'm at school:
I don't get what you're saying here.
Carrying a weapon in the PO is ILLEGAL whether open or concealed.
And why do you have to take holster off and place it in the glove compartment?
On other notes.
Home Depot is a private business. They can do what they want. I've never seen a sign on their doors and OC there all the time. How they deal with employees is their business.
BTW, there is no law that ALLOWS you to do anything.
ALL laws are negative freedoms. In the absence of laws you are free to do anything. Each law restricts you to a smaller universe of operation and behavior.
Also, carrying in the courtHOUSE is different than carrying in the courtROOM.
And lastly to sbeckman.
I thought that the new "ruling" was that "state laws apply to national parks located within that state."
The media only seemed to talk about CCW at the time this changed, but I take that as due to the fact that the public and media is ignorant about OC. Certainly you have to have a PERMIT to carry a gun anywhere, right? So it's all about CCW!
I've never seen anything directly related to OC. The national parks of course are keeping their mouths shut about this.
Oh, just thought of this: I thought part of this ruling was such that it would allow people with rifles to bring them in while camping for protection. Long guns are not pertinent to CCW so somehow I doubt that long guns are prohibited now in the parks.
But then again, I really don't know!
Mac
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Geez, Jscott is getting OC grief from all sides: School, Work and then the bank
incident.
Goto 14:45 in this video for an OC solution for the car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-9DA4lrpk).
This reg is for CC but hints at the possible angle of getting school consent by becoming
part of campus security:
Wyoming Code 6-8-104.
(t)(x) Any College or University facility without the written consent of the security service of the
college or university.
Then there's the notion of getting deputized by the county upon which you become magically
safe with a gun wherever you go. The deputization process must change
every molecule of your body in a magical transformation mere civilians will never experience :o
Hang in there and thanks for paving the way for some of us,
Terence
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Then there's the notion of getting deputized by the county upon which you become magically
safe with a gun wherever you go. The deputization process must change
every molecule of your body in a magical transformation mere civilians will never experience :o
Isn't it amazing that simply by being a State minion your get all the magical powers?
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Then there's the notion of getting deputized by the county upon which you become magically
safe with a gun wherever you go. The deputization process must change
every molecule of your body in a magical transformation mere civilians will never experience :o
Isn't it amazing that simply by being a State minion your get all the magical powers?
Magical indeed, Stratispho. One of the few ways to get more (Magical) power with less training
and ability.
Terence
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I've never been asked to leave any store, nor have I ever seen a sign (with the exception of the PO) prohibiting carry in Wyoming; but as an employee, I would get fired for carrying either on or off the clock. I don't really mind that--I did willfully agree to work there and abide by the terms of my employment, afterall--but I found when I was researching Utah laws that your car is considered the same as your home there, so even though your car is on someone else's private property you can still carry. If I kept my gun in my car while I worked (so I can carry on my lunch break or when I run errands after work) I could be fired for carrying on Home Depot's property--same with my bank, I presume, since they own the parking lot. Utah law prohibits them (or anyone) from telling me what I can have in my vehicle. I do like that. I'll respect other people's rights, but within my own home, vehicle or any other private area I'll do as I please.
Well, I have one of those holsters that clip on with a magent (it's pretty cool), so it's not such a bother to take it off but it does get old. Part of the reason I take the holster off is because I don't like having my gun out of the holster while in public and taking it out of the holster to place it in the glove compartment or on the seat could actually frighten some people--it would probably get my attention. The way I think of it is this: if I can't conceal when in my vehicle, then I can't have it on my body while seated in the vehicle, otherwise it would be concealed if only for the briefest moment. If a LEO saw me step out of my vehicle with a holstered gun on my hip, I'd probably have a tough time explaining that I keep it plainly visible while in the vehicle but that I simply put it back in its holster prior to getting out of my car. Rather, I keep it in the glove compartment, step out of my vehicle and then put my holster on/holster the gun. I don't think it's advisable to be handling my gun like that in public, which is why I keep it in its holster in the glove compartment. Basically, by doing things that way, I rule out any possibility of anyone saying that I brandished a weapon at them, etc. because it's always in its holster--no exceptions. I've done it both ways, but feel more comfortable keeping it in the holster--I presume everyone else here without a permit simply puts it sans-holster in the glove compartment?
In Utah, I didn't have to worry about any of that, which I like VERY much. I don't really want a CC permit, because I don't want to ask permission for anything, but the whole car thing would make having the permit worth it. In Pennsylvania, on the other hand, you need a permit to have a gun in your vehicle period and there are plenty of signs prohibiting carry, so I never bothered to even purchase a handgun there. Everyone I know in PA who owns a handgun keeps it at home at all times.
Thanks for the link, Terence, I'll have to check that out.
I get what you're saying about laws restricting freedoms, Mac, but I don't think all LEOs see it that way--I don't want to be hassled, even if they have no grounds for it. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if most LEOs interpreted the law's silence quite differently than us: they tend to think that if the law doesn't specifically state you can, then you can't--in the name of fighting crime and national security, of course. I have to trust the integrity and general knowledge of all the LEOs around here basically everytime I carry--and I don't trust many people. In general, I am with you philosophically, but in this case (until we live in a more perfect world... Vermont/Constitutional carry?) it's nice to have it in black and white so I can keep them out of my hair.
BUT, I don't want to sound overly gushy about Utah, as their state consitution does state: "but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms." So, while they have pretty good gun laws right now (and they might get Constitutional carry this year, as well) the state constitution basically gives the legislature the power to wipe all that away and turn the state into a gun-hating paradise if they ever got the inclination to do so.
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the state constitution basically gives the legislature the power to wipe all that away...if they ever got the inclination to do so.
This is precisely how Wyomingites lost their right to impanel a Grand Jury...
From the Wyoming Constitution....
The legislature may change, regulate or abolish the grand jury system.
So now we have this....in "legal"-ese....
7-5-101. Required court order for summoning.
A grand jury shall be summoned only when ordered by a judge of the district court.
And then they can only...
7-5-202. Charging of duties; powers.
(a) ....the district judge shall c....give them any information the court deems proper concerning any offenses known to the court and likely to come before the grand jury.
(b) The grand jury may:
(i) Inquire into any crimes committed or triable within the county and present them to the court by indictment; and
(ii) Investigate and report to the court concerning the condition of the county jail and the treatment of prisoners.
MANUMIT
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@ jscottdavis;
I think you are misinterpreting what OC is.
Walking around with a gun in holster is OC.
Sitting in a vehicle with that same holstered gun is also OC.
A gun doesn't have to be visible from ALL viewing angles, just as when walking with it on your right side and a LEO on the left. He can't claim that it is "concealed".
It only has to be visible from SOME angles.
I've confirmed that carrying in a holster is AOK in both NV and WY. I've talked to the LEOs myself.
The OC laws (or lack thereof) here in WY are the same as NV. Carrying a fully loaded, chambered, gun with magazine inserted, is allowed as OC in a holster while seated in a vehicle No problem. The same is true in NM, CO, AZ, MT, and ID (imnsho). (although I've heard that some jurisdictions in AZ have other ideas)
UT actually is the oddball in the West in that you can't have it loaded while in a vehicle. I always get aggravated when I pass thru UT.
All other states described above allow a fully loaded weapon. (according to my info)
Mac
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Carrying a fully loaded, chambered, gun with magazine inserted, is allowed as OC in a holster while seated in a vehicle No problem. The same is true in NM, CO, AZ, MT, and ID (imnsho). (although I've heard that some jurisdictions in AZ have other ideas)
Arizona state law (what they are calling Constitutional carry says that open and concealed carry without a permit are ok anywhere in the state and no city or municipality can write laws that conflict with the state law. This went into effect July 29, 2010. The only places that are off limits are federal buildings and places that post with the official sign that has to be printed in color, on 8 1/2x 11" paper as shown at this link http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/documents/firearms/firearms_eng.pdf (http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/documents/firearms/firearms_eng.pdf))
UT actually is the oddball in the West in that you can't have it loaded while in a vehicle. I always get aggravated when I pass thru UT.
All other states described above allow a fully loaded weapon. (according to my info)
According to http://handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf (http://handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf) which links to the Utah Statutes
76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the
person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age
may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or
muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
Nothing in UT's laws say anything about not having it loaded in the vehicle that I can find. Can you find something that states otherwise? Also, UT honors most states concealed carry permits.
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That part of the UT law is a bit confusing, Stratispho:
"Loaded" there means with the mag in. In Utah, you can't have a round in the chamber when OCing.
@ Mac: Maybe I'm mistaken about OCing in a vehicle, then. As I understand it, you have to have your gun "plainly visible," so it must be placed somewhere like the seat next to you or in the glove compartment. From that, if you keep your gun on your hip while driving or seated in your vehicle, then your gun would not be plainly visible and, thus, concealed. Am I correct there or do I not need to go through the trouble?
My point about the Utah law is that I can keep my gun holstered on my hip rather than having to
a) take it out of the holster and place it on the seat/in the glove compartment
b) take off my holster and put the gun with holster on the seat/in the glove compartment
I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one: i.e. that "plainly visible" means it must not be on my hip, whereas in Utah you can "conceal" (not take it off) while in your vehicle. If I'm not correct and I can just leave it on without being in violation of the law, then that would be good news.
So, my thing about taking off the holster is that I don't feel comfortable removing my gun from its holster in order to place it on the seat next to me or in the glove compartment. I'd rather leave it in its holster at all times, which means I need to take off the holster each time I get in my vehicle. Are you saying that I can keep my gun in its usual place on my hip and still comply with the "plainly visible" requirement for OCing in a vehicle? I have heard otherwise from a number of people, so I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding me. Sorry if I may have been confusing. :)
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That part of the UT law is a bit confusing, Stratispho:
"Loaded" there means with the mag in. In Utah, you can't have a round in the chamber when OCing.
No, I got that. What I'm saying is that the law says you may not carry a loaded weapon in the vehicle unless you own the vehicle, or you have permission from the owner. The law never say you have to unload your weapon so the information that Mac was told is either out of date or he was told incorrectly. So he doesn't have to unload his gun to go through UT.
UT actually is the oddball in the West in that you can't have it loaded while in a vehicle. I always get aggravated when I pass thru UT.
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I think the fact that Wyo law is basically silent about OC is both a blessing and a curse. Having recently researched the Utah laws prior to our recent trip there, I like the fact that the laws there state specifically what you can do, because it makes things less confusing (I suspect most LEOs here wouldn't interpret the law's silence in exactly the way I do).
Montana is like this, saying what you can do. I actually prefer the Wyoming way. LEOs can be educated. :)
I wouldn't be surprised if most LEOs interpreted the law's silence quite differently than us: they tend to think that if the law doesn't specifically state you can, then you can't
Well, f*ck that! :D It's possible to get too wrapped up in legal technicalities. Keep in mind, all these laws are completely illegal and immoral! Even moreso, are bogus interpretations of these laws. What matters is not so much what the laws say or how people interpret it, but how likely are you to be caught, and what happens if you are. In Wyoming at least, you are unlikely to be caught, and can avoid being caught by exposing the gun. Most cops wouldn't make a fuss about it. And the worst thing you get is a misdemeanor.
It's easier for me because I'm an old fart and don't give a shit any more, but I do advise trying to think like a free person no matter what your age.
Here is the section of (the unconstitutional) Wyoming 6-8-104 people were asking about (for CC):
(t) No permit issued pursuant to this section or any permit issued from any other state shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into:
(i) Any facility used primarily for law enforcement operations or administration without the written consent of the chief administrator;
(ii) Any detention facility, prison or jail;
(iii) Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in the courtroom;
(iv) Any meeting of a governmental entity;
(v) Any meeting of the legislature or a committee thereof;
(vi) Any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
(vii) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;
(viii) Any place where persons are assembled for public worship, without the written consent of the chief administrator of that place;
(ix) Any elementary or secondary school facility;
(x) Any college or university facility without the written consent of the security service of the college or university; or
(xi) Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law or regulation or state law.
Wyoming CC law is too restrictive in my opinion. Even Oregon's is better. The thing to do in Wyoming is "discrete OC", where you use something like a blued gun in a dark IWB holster with dark clothing, with the gun barely exposed - few people will notice it. That way, there are no state restrictions on where you can carry (still have the federal ones though).
If you want a CC permit, some like to get e.g. a Utah permit which is recognized in Wyoming (and a lot of other places) but which won't show up on the computer if you are pulled over by a Wyoming cop. Could be this is old advice though, depending on how interlinked the police databases are.
Carrying a weapon in the PO is ILLEGAL whether open or concealed.
Actually, I've read that it's not quite that clear cut. However for all practical purposes one might as well treat it as illegal.
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That's sound advice, as usual, Paul. If I didn't have to go into town just about everyday for work, school, etc. I wouldn't worry about all this so much. Right now, I simply can't afford the fine!
In order to not let my one question get lost in the few posts that have come since: Am I misunderstanding Mac or do I have to have my gun somewhere plainly visible like the seat or glove compartment in order to OC legally? Can I just wear it in my car and not have to worry about concealing without a permit? I think I've heard from several places, including in this forum, that it has to be visible.
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It's easier for me because I'm an old fart and don't give a shit any more, but I do advise trying to think like a free person no matter what your age.
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Yes, Wyomings Concealed Carry lLaw is Unconstitutional. Many states have provisions in their constitutions allowing regulation of Concealed carrry.However does not. The constitution says this:
97-1-024. Right to bear arms.
The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.
There is no room in that for a concealed carry law of any kind.
The Wyoming constitution also says this. The very first paragraph.
97-1-001. Power inherent in the people.
All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness; for the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish the government in such manner as they may think proper.
Concealed carry also violates this.
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@jscottdavis,
I ain't no lawyer! Nor legal scholar. ::)
But I never heard of any state that requires you to take you gun out of your holster and lay it on the front seat! Or tape it to the dashboard with a large arrow pointing to it saying "GUN"!
If that were the case wouldn't it be illegal to OC at a Wendy's restaurant if you were seated with your gun holstered facing away from the aisle and an LEO claimed it was "concealed"? See my point? Would you have to tape it to your forehead for all to see in all directions? I don't think so.
I actually asked the county deputies in NV about it. What they told me is what I told here. Also, once, at an illegal sobriety checkpoint, at night, they stopped me and asked me to step out and take a breathalyzer test. I informed the deputy that I had my sidearm with me, he asked me where, I told him it was holstered on my right side, and he basically said, "Sheesssh! No big deal. Just get out, stand right here out of the traffic (with your sidearm), and blow into this device."
And I asked a Crook County deputy once about OC after I returned to the gas pump in Moorcroft where he was pumping gas nearby. He had said, "Is that a Glock you've got there?" That started up a conversation about OC. He said they encourage folks to carry as long as they do so safely and responsibly. Never a mention of "make sure you have it unholstered and laying on the seat."
That doesn't mean of course that somewhere, some place, there isn't a rogue cop that will suddenly hold you at gunpoint because he got freaked out by your gun. Ya just never know!
BTW, Boston's Gun Bible (revised), page 34/4 says that handguns must be unloaded, chamber and mag empty, in a vehicle. Don't know if that is still accurate.
Mac
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Nobody here is an attorney, except for the attorneys.
No legal advice or information is being dispensed in this thread.
Just layman's opinion.
Boston
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I agree BOSTON. Like Glenn Beck says, "Do your own homework."
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Nobody here is an attorney, except for the attorneys.
No legal advice or information is being dispensed in this thread.
Just layman's opinion.
Boston
That's always a given here, I suppose, but I guess that does need to be pointed out from time to time.
@ Mac: thanks for sharing your experiences. I have heard differently from others, but your point about Wendy's makes sense: But I never said the laws were supposed to make sense! 8) I'll just have to re-do my homework in light of what you're saying and maybe give the Sheriff's office a call for clarification... do you think calling would be a good idea?
Well, thanks for your thoughts, all.
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Just remember that cops are not lawyers either. And they often do not really KNOW the "law" they are supposed to be enforcing. Just saying...
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@jscott
Yes, I do think it would be a good idea.
When I first moved to NV I went into the local sheriff's office (with handgun left in car) and asked if I could speak to an officer about firearms (notice my use of words). The deputy was quite pleased to talk to me about the laws and expectations from their point of view. It was then that I was told that I could lay the weapon on the front seat, on the dash, or keep it in my holster while driving. And when I asked about what if I was stopped for some traffic infraction, he suggested that if I told the officer I was armed before stepping out of the vehicle (if it came to that) that that would be best. At the end of the conversation he thanked me profusely for taking the time to understand the laws (and customs) of the area.
The same was true here in Crook County when speaking to a deputy at the gas station. Again, I think any rural law enforcement agency welcomes honest, law abiding, and well behaved citizens whether they carry or not. They are not our enemy and we are not theirs. Too much of their day might involve people who are not quite so upstanding as the people on this forum so they welcome speaking to an educated citizen.
Then again, this doesn't ALWAYS apply and there are indeed rogue cops. But my experience in WY (and NV) has been nothing but positive. I would think that a face to face discussion with your local LEOs might be a good thing if you want to know where they stand.
BTW, once, while visiting my cousin in Denver, I decided to to the same thing. I went into the local PD (might have been an adjoining city and not Denver proper) and asked the same questions. The cop looked at me with astonishment. His eyes got big. He reiterated my question by asking, "So you want to carry a LOADED HANDGUN IN YOUR CAR?" I replied, yes, I know that there is NO LAW against it, but wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a problem if I was stopped for any reason. First he IMPLIED that it would be illegal. But when I pressed him for the specific law, he changed his story. Then he started citing "officer safety". Lastly, in exasperation he said, "Let me put it this way. If we find that you have a gun, WE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN AT GUNPOINT, GET YOU ON THE GROUND, REMOVE YOUR WEAPON, DETAIN YOU, AND RUN YOUR INFO AND THE GUN'S INFO. If everything checks out we will let you go, but might retain your gun for a few days for more testing."
Those are his ACTUAL words as best as I can remember them (about 8 years ago).
A world of difference between Denver and Crook County.
Mac
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That doesn't surprise me about the Denver area. Most of the East Coast would be about the same.
I've thought about going to the Sheriff's office to do just that, Mac. I certainly trust them more than the Rock Springs or Green River PD, but, as with any advice, it must be taken with a grain of salt. I think the benefit of talking with the LEOs in any local area is to find out what their expectations and general dispositions are. That's my main concern about keeping my firearm on me while driving around here (especially in Rock Springs city limits): regardless of what is legal or not, what matters is what the cops think is legal or allowed. It's good information, as it's better to be prepared for what might transpire rather than saying, "These are my rights, so F*** off!" Although, it's important to have the fortitude to say that when necessary >:D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1bN-tCyfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1bN-tCyfA)
Here's a great clip on open carry in Wyoming.
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Short of extolling the benefits of OC that's about as good as it gets
from the local news.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1bN-tCyfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1bN-tCyfA)
Here's a great clip on open carry in Wyoming.
I like that one. And two of the newscasters in it are in "Guns and Weed."
MWD
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When I said on a different thread on here recently that "I've traveled all over the state and other than FSW folks and Neema, I've only ever seen one other person open carrying", the one other person was the cowboy in this piece.
I think he carries a single action (!) revolver for self-defense.
MWD
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Short of extolling the benefits of OC that's about as good as it gets
from the local news.
And it won't be like that good again for a while likely. Neema used to do all the cool libertarian and gun reports on K2 News TV, and he just moved to Washington State for a new job this month. K2 replaced him with a Democrat gal who just moved here from California.
MWD
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K2 replaced him with a Democrat gal who just moved here from California.
(I am just thinking "out loud" for a moment. If my idea sounds stupid, it probably is...)
(Rest of text removed: off-topic and probably not in line with FSW interests.)
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Folks,
Let keep the topic on track please. No discussing "headhunting" or "other actions" against anybody (even if they are Kalifornians and Democrat). >:D
To continue, I watched the v >:Dideo, and I believe that they said that " ...you are allowed to carry an 'unloaded' (?) gun" Did my ears decieve me?
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Just re-listened to the relevant parts: The audio quality isn't great on this vid, but Neema was saying, "you don't need a permit and the gun CAN be loaded..." I can see how it sounded a lot like "can't"
Neema will be missed.
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K2 replaced him with a Democrat gal who just moved here from California.
(I am just thinking "out loud" for a moment. If my idea sounds stupid, it probably is...)
Is shunning her a viable option? How about stern, angry, or grumpy letters to the management?
Or how about lots and lots of "personal" calls to her when she is at work? Or when she is at home? ("Hey, I saw you on TV and you look hot. Wanna go out?" Again, and again ...) If dozens of people called dozens of times, that could really add up.
Although it would cost money, maybe a billboard could work. Maybe something like "Firstname Lastname, we hate you. GO HOME!" If she drove past it every day, it might be the straw that broke the camel's back.
Then again, some money paid to a private investigator might dig up some dirt that could make her uncomfortable.
Please keep in mind that coming from California is cause for suspicion, but there are obvious exceptions when the person moves for the right reasons. Moving for a job is not one of those exceptions. And someone who identifies with the "Democratic" party is fair game for a thrashing.
Are you serious?
This would all be incredibly silly, and kind of creepy. She's not a bad kid, doesn't have an agenda, doesn't identify as a democrat, and Wyoming may change her. FWIW, A majority of newscasters are democrats. Same with most TV station owners.
Also, K2 didn't fire Neema, he left on his own when his contract ended for a better paying job in a bigger market.
MWD
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I agree--that would be weird and it's also off topic. Besides, it's not her fault she was born in California!
I just wanted to post the video because it does have an interview with a Casper LEO and he basically tells Neema the requirements for legal open carry in Wyoming. Plus, it's nice to hear that kind of information coming from the evening news!
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Folks,
To continue, I watched the v >:Dideo, and I believe that they said that " ...you are allowed to carry an 'unloaded' (?) gun" Did my ears decieve me?
Yes, you heard wrong. Probably because K2 has awful audio most of the time. Various interns mix the audio on that station, and the overall production quality looks and sounds like a high school AV team.
Neema open carries. He actually got in "trouble" for it from the sheriff of Natrona County. Not a sheriff, but the sheriff. Mark Benton personally called K2 and basically said "If you keep letting that reporter show up at at active crime scenes with a gun on his hip, we're not going to cooperate with the station anymore."
If we wanna talk about action, how about voting out Mark Benton next time? A "sovereign citizen" guy ran against him this year,
http://trib.com/news/local/article_e3719a80-7efe-5d55-a9f5-126a6115bb9a.html
but he was someone who comes off as somewhat of a nut, isn't electable, and word is he was only running to settle a personal beef with Benton.
MWD
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I agree--that would be weird and it's also off topic. Besides, it's not her fault she was born in California!
I moved here from California! So did MamaLiberty!
MWD
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Let keep the topic on track please.
Okay, you started this thread and your comment is fair. My opinions are best handled in private communications with the individual authors.
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Thanks rhodges. ;)
Can you (or anyone else comment or clarify on my last question about "...they are permitted carry and unloaded gun?"
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I'm no lawyer, but my understanding, and how I operate is this: you can open carry a loaded gun in Wyoming without a permit, except in places that guns are forbidden by federal law, or on private property where the owner or lease holder doesn't want you to open carry (like someone's house who doesn't like guns, or stores that don't permit guns and they have a sign or ask you to leave when they see your gun.)
MWD
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I should add to that list "places forbidden by state law" and "government buildings", though some of that's debatable, like someone pointed out about courthouses.
I personally wouldn't open carry in any state or local government building here, but I tend to not go into government buildings.
Curious, FDNYLiberty, is the idea of legal, hassle-free open carry of a loaded gun without a government "permission slip" (permit) mindblowing to you? It was to me when I lived in California. I even owned guns but had never heard of open carry until I read "You and the Police."
~W~
MWD
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I remember being scared of seeing any gun. period. Even if a cop had one. Actually, in Canada, the cops are pretty mean, so I was scared of them even when they didn't have a gun! Remember that Polish guy who was murdered by the RCMP in Vancouver? Death by taser... how humane!
As far as OC in Wyoming goes, there's nothing prohibiting anyone from carrying a loaded gun with a round in the chamber. In Utah, they distinguish between loaded and round in the chamber. You need a CCW to do that there.
I think the toughest thing about OC in Wyoming, no matter where you are, is there are few places where even a handfull of people OC, so it's not like I can observe what other people do around here and do as the natives do... it not only makes it difficult to determine what is the best practice but also draws a lot of attention. I'm still a newbie at this, so sometimes it's a bit weird; but it's almost always good attention. Today I noticed a few people noticing, but it wasn't the scared "oh-my-gosh-he-has-a-gun" type of noticing. At Starbucks a guy even tried to strike up a conversation with me.
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10-4 to all that, Jefferson.
Unless someone's trying to make a statement, this formula from Mac works well:
black gun
black holster
black pants
black or dark colored shirt.
Hardly anyone will even notice your open carried gun, but it's fully legal in Wyoming, and many other states.
(Offer not valid in California, New York, or the District of Columbia.)
MWD
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Unless someone's trying to make a statement, this formula from Mac works well:
black gun
black holster
black pants
black or dark colored shirt.
I'd look really silly in that get up! LOL I wear just whatever I feel like wearing and nobody cares. jscottdavis04, you come spend a week walking around town with me and you'll get over being nervous about it. I go absolutely everywhere but the post office carrying openly, and NOBODY cares. They may laugh all they like, but they don't object even when they notice. ;D
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10-4 to all that, Jefferson.
Unless someone's trying to make a statement, this formula from Mac works well:
black gun
black holster
black pants
black or dark colored shirt.
Hardly anyone will even notice your open carried gun, but it's fully legal in Wyoming, and many other states.
(Offer not valid in California, New York, or the District of Columbia.)
MWD
Sounds like what I habitually wear (or wore) as a barista in Washington... especially when you add the goatee & tiny glasses. >:D
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Sounds like what I habitually wear (or wore) as a barista in Washington... especially when you add the goatee & tiny glasses. >:D
lol!
You didn't work at the 9:30 Club, did you?
MWD
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Sounds like what I habitually wear (or wore) as a barista in Washington... especially when you add the goatee & tiny glasses. >:D
lol!
You didn't work at the 9:30 Club, did you?
MWD
Nah. I worked in Spokane. I was going to GU.
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Oh...I thought you meant Mordor-on-Potomac Washington.
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I should add to that list "places forbidden by state law" and "government buildings", though some of that's debatable, like someone pointed out about courthouses.
I personally wouldn't open carry in any state or local government building here, but I tend to not go into government buildings.
Curious, FDNYLiberty, is the idea of legal, hassle-free open carry of a loaded gun without a government "permission slip" (permit) mindblowing to you? It was to me when I lived in California. I even owned guns but had never heard of open carry until I read "You and the Police."
~W~
MWD
MWD: In answer to your question, the idea of Open carry is not "mindblowing" to me. However, the idea of NOT being able to exercise your Freedom and Liberty to OC definitely is! In socialist NY City you can not even own a rifle/shotgun without a permit - and good luck trying to get one. You can buy/own rifle/SG in surrounding areas of NYC, but forget about getting a handgun permit - takes over 9 mos. and then it can only be kept in house or used at a range. Forget about trying to get a CCW permit, unless you are a cop or a business owner who can "prove" the need for one.
On a note, it is only by hanging aroound with my buddy, LastNJConservative, that I have learned more about the laws and regulations (and especially in NJ where they are a joke) concerning firearms. I discovered OpenCaryy.org and then asked my buddy more to clarify. He pointed to to BOSTON's Gun Bible (great book BTW).
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Right now, I wear a black leather coat when I OC and my holster is also black, so part of me wonders if the reason I get so many double-takes is because they see something but they're not sure what! lol. I did have one person say, "Holy crap! You're carrying a gun! I thought it was a cellphone!" Then he laughed.
I almost always wear jeans and I usually have lighter-colored shirts, so in the warmer months it will be interesting to see if people don't make such a fuss about it when they can see right away that I'm OCing. I think most of the attention I get is because people are taking a second look to see if that was actually a gun or not. Most clerks and other people I deal with that have an opportunity to get a close-up look never say anything to me.
I've heard Mac talk about the all black "camo" for OCing before... it will be fun to experiment a bit and see what works best around here.
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In socialist NY .....Forget about trying to get a CCW permit, unless you are a cop or a business owner who can "prove" the need for one.
In Los Angeles you more or less have to be a judge,a movie star or a diamond merchant to get a permit.
MWD
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....I get so many double-takes is because they see something but they're not sure what! lol. I did have one person say, "Holy crap! You're carrying a gun!....
I have gotten none of that in Casper. I don't know if it's the city or something about my "presentation."
I don't know if I told this experience on here, but it's a good one:
When DJ and I drive and I'm riding "shotgun", I have my snubbie in the open glove box in front of me, in plain view. (Would be much easier to get quickly from there sitting than in my pocket holster.) This summer we got pulled over for speeding inside town. Young officer, not cocky, said, "License and registration please." DJ hands him her license, I say, "Officer, before I reach into the glove box to get the registration I'd like to point out that...."
Officer says "I see the gun. Please just give me the registration...."
I reach under my gun, get the registration, hand it to officer. He goes back to his car, does a quick check, comes back. Hands DJ the license and registration and says "You were going nine miles over the speed limit. This is a dangerous part of the road, it's a beautiful day, and I'd hate to see you get in an accident. Have a good day and please drive slower." He leaves without giving us a ticket.
Blew my mind, especially in light of the fact that three weeks earlier, my stepson had been pulled over in Orange County California for rolling a stop sign and had GUNS POINTED AT HIS HEAD, BEEN THROWN TO THE GROUND AND HANDCUFFED, AND DETAINED FOR 45 MINUTES because he had AN UNOPENED SPAM CAN OF MOSIN AMMO IN HIS TRUCK. He had no weapons, no drugs, just ammo. Cops said it was "armor piercing" and thus "illegal" and yelled at him until their watch commander told them to let him go.
MWD
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Please keep in mind that coming from California is cause for suspicion, but there are obvious exceptions when the person moves for the right reasons. Moving for a job is not one of those exceptions. And someone who identifies with the "Democratic" party is fair game for a thrashing.
Can't find the original post. Assume it was deleted for content. With apologies for knowingly continuing a thread off-topic, I want to say I'm glad a few of you spoke up in this instance. Wouldn't want to be left thinking that "right" reasons" are dictated or that everyone from California, who identifies with the "democratic" party, or has blond hair is shunned from this forum or the FSW group. People are people, not labels, parties or locations. We have so much more in common than our irrational brains allow. And knowing so makes productive discourse more likely. Thanks for all the interesting discussion. Tho' I don't often participate, I appreciate the lively and thoughtful dynamic. You too rhodges ;)
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Wouldn't want to be left thinking that "right" reasons" are dictated or that everyone from California, who identifies with the "democratic" party, or has blond hair is shunned from this forum or the FSW group.
My wife and I moved to Wyoming a year and a half ago from Los Angeles, and we love it here. I used to vote Democrat. I've met many of the people on this forum in person and all but one has been kind to me. And my blond hair has never come up as an issue.
:D ~W~
MWD
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Blew my mind, especially in light of the fact that three weeks earlier, my stepson had been pulled over in Orange County California for rolling a stop sign and had GUNS POINTED AT HIS HEAD, BEEN THROWN TO THE GROUND AND HANDCUFFED, AND DETAINED FOR 45 MINUTES because he had AN UNOPENED SPAM CAN OF MOSIN AMMO IN HIS TRUCK. He had no weapons, no drugs, just ammo. Cops said it was "armor piercing" and thus "illegal" and yelled at him until their watch commander told them to let him go.
MWD
No THAT blows my mind! Even so, it is unsurprising. Same thing would probably have happened to him back here in NY City.
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At the end of that last clip, Neema says it is illegal to carry in schools and government buildings. With OC, that is not true, unless I am mistaken.
As to voting Democrat, or whatever, I just found a nice quote from H.L. Mencken:
In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
:D
Unfortunately I am a Republican. I will have to fix that next time I get in the county courthouse.
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At the end of that last clip, Neema says it is illegal to carry in schools and government buildings. With OC, that is not true, unless I am mistaken.
As to voting Democrat, or whatever, I just found a nice quote from H.L. Mencken:
In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
:D
Unfortunately I am a Republican. I will have to fix that next time I get in the county courthouse.
Ha, ha. Mencken was a witty wonder. He also wrote:
..."A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar." This I continue to hope he will be proved wrong....
..."All government, of course, is against liberty."
..."I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone." (I think he'd be happy in the company of the FSW)
...And some sad commentary on democracy.
At risk of forever being a thread-breaker, the following might be a good reference for CC and OC if it's not already on your go-to list:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
http://packing4life.com/
Packing.org used to be a good site, but I guess it's not maintained now.
Here's the Wyoming application of the www.handgunlaw.us code re: off-limit places even with a Permit/License:
Last Updated: 1/1/11
www.handgunlaw.us
Wyoming Code 6-8-104. Wearing or Carrying Concealed Weapons; Penalties; Exceptions; Permits.
(t)(i) Any facility used primarily for law enforcement operations or administration without the written consent of the chief administrator.
(t)(ii) Any detention facility, prison or jail.
(t)(iii) Any Courtroom.
(t)(iv) Any meeting of a government entity.
(t)(v) Any meeting of the legislature or a committee thereof.
(t)(vi) Any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms.
(t)(vii) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose.
(t)(viii) Any place where persons are assembled for public worship, without the written consent of the chief administrator of that place.
(t)(ix) Any Elementary or Secondary School facility.
(t)(x) Any College or University facility without the written consent of the security service of the college or university.
(t)(xi) Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law or state law or regulation.
Apologies for any duplication of prior posts.
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At the end of that last clip, Neema says it is illegal to carry in schools and government buildings. With OC, that is not true, unless I am mistaken.
Again, there is a vast difference between open carry and concealed carry. The only places in Wyoming where open carry is illegal is on Federal property, such as the post office or a Federal building. There is no Wyoming statute on the books regarding open carry. All FEDERAL gun laws apply to either OC or CC.
It is against FEDERAL law for anyone except an "only one" to carry either CC or OC into a government school. It's also a pretty dumb idea, given the current climate of things. A private school would be treated as any other private property, and the wishes of the owner would determine what and how you might carry.
You would not be welcome to carry either way into a jail or other detention facility unless you were employed there. Can't imaging why anyone would want to go there in the first place.
Just my 2 cents worth. >:D
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It is against FEDERAL law for anyone except an "only one" to carry either CC or OC into a government school.
I looked up info on the "gun free target rich school zones" act to see what the deal was. Susan, you are right, even OC is not allowed under federal law:
http://gunowners.org/fs9611.htm (http://gunowners.org/fs9611.htm)
Well, laws were made to be ignored, I guess! >:( (Make your own assessment of the risk, of course. But it seems to me, every person in this forum has broken this law multiple times...)
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Until they put metal detectors and federal gestapo at the doors, CC is not "prohibited"...
OTOH, if you are STUPID about it... ya gets what ya gets.
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This thread has been quiet for some time, but I'll jump in here anyway. I live in Florida, and the gun laws are confusing to say the least. As far as I know (and I own and have read the "official" state firearms law handbook) open carry is not permitted. You can possess a handgun and carry it in your vehicle with the stipulation that it be "securely encased" in some manner. That could be in the glove box, in a gun bag, in a purse (zipped up), or in a tupperware container with the lid on. Basically as long as it's in something that prevents you from firing the weapon without first opening that something. Getting a concealed weapons permit simply entails taking a class and paying a fee. While this does make it easier for you to then purchase firearms from a licensed dealer and permit you to carry a weapon concealed on your person, it could actually be seen to restrict your possession of firearms in many ways. For example: if you do possess a CWP any weapon that you carry is now a deadly weapon and cannot be taken into a place where firearms are prohibited. So pepper spray and pocket knives are now in the same category as handguns because you have a CWP and are supposedly trained to operate a weapon. Anyway, as you can you see, it can get rather tricky here in Florida. But it seems that what you're saying here is that in WY open carry is legal and requires no permit. Correct?
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... For example: if you do possess a CWP any weapon that you carry is now a deadly weapon and cannot be taken into a place where firearms are prohibited. So pepper spray and pocket knives are now in the same category as handguns because you have a CWP and are supposedly trained to operate a weapon. ...
I guess that means that, by "law" I am not allowed into any Courtroom in Florida since I am "trained" in lethal & less-lethal hand-to hand combat.
Cool.
If I'm not allowed near a court, I can't be tried by a jury of my peers, since none of them would be allowed in a courtroom either.
I win. >:D
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Anyway, as you can you see, it can get rather tricky here in Florida. But it seems that what you're saying here is that in WY open carry is legal and requires no permit. Correct?
Yep... No permit required for OC (anybody legally eligible to own or touch a gun at all) or even CC for "residents." But nobody goes around shaking anyone down to find out, so that's mostly moot.
Sure sounds like a lot of good reasons to get out of Florida... >:D
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Hmmm....maybe it's time for Alan Korwin to expand his literary
offerings with a new volume, "Wyoming Gunowner's Guide".
Definitely couldn't hurt...
Yours In Liberty! ~W~
Steve Kristmann aka Northgunner III
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Sorry to be repetitive, but I wanna get this all straight. So concealed carry is permitted for residents (who aren't otherwise prohibited of course) without any sort of permit?
Also, what's the process in WY for purchasing firearms? Background check, waiting period, etc?
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Sorry to be repetitive, but I wanna get this all straight. So concealed carry is permitted for residents (who aren't otherwise prohibited of course) without any sort of permit?
Also, what's the process in WY for purchasing firearms? Background check, waiting period, etc?
Don't know of any other way to say this. Yes. CC is not "illegal" for any resident who isn't already a "prohibited person" for whatever reason. You MAY still get a "permit" if you insist on it... say you travel to other places where you still need one to be "legal." Federal laws all apply. You can buy guns at any FFL with the instant check and walk out of there with it if it clears. You can buy from a private party and it's nobody else's business.
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Sorry for making you repeat it. It just seemed too simple; I thought I must have overlooked something. So essentially there's no need for any sort of permit as long as you remain within the state. It seems too good to be true. I believe this calls for one of these > ~W~
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Sorry for making you repeat it. It just seemed too simple; I thought I must have overlooked something. So essentially there's no need for any sort of permit as long as you remain within the state. It seems too good to be true. I believe this calls for one of these > ~W~
Yep, that's the idea.
Realize that there are still all kinds of idiotic restrictions and rules imposed on concealed carry that are not a problem with open carry. You need to go look at the actual statutes and educate yourself on the specifics if you plan to CC.
The bottom line, however, is that nobody stops folks in the street to hassle them about anything, so what you choose is your business unless you run into (or cause) trouble. Then it might be an issue.
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3) I kept telling my better half that we will see LOTS of folks in WY open carrying, however during our entire travels in the state, we only saw one person OC'ing. Are most folks concealed carrying instead?
I reckon you'll see more open cary in the summertime when it's t-shirt weather. Come fall and winter, when jackets are common, it'd be no big surprise that some folks have their iron beneath a jacket. And come the sleet and rains in Spring, you betcha my raingear will offer protection to both me and my handgun.
I'm a bit of an odd duck in that I tend to favor an Army tank crewman's shoulder holster instead of a belt rig. But after some 45 years of using one, I've gotten kind of used to one, and putting it on/taking it off is as simple as tossing the one-strap over one shoulder.
(http://www.caspianarms.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/A04T1.jpg)
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What has not been made perfectly clear to me yet is when I travel into WY, as a non-resident, I plan to OC, my current state allows permit-less OC. By “law” I think I am good to go then as I meet the requirements of both home and guest state. Does anyone see any LEGAL problems with that? (I highlighted legal to attempt to keep the agreed upon ethical problems from being repeated.)
Hmmm....maybe it's time for Alan Korwin to expand his literary
offerings with a new volume, "Wyoming Gunowner's Guide".
Definitely couldn't hurt...
Yours In Liberty! ~W~
Steve Kristmann aka Northgunner III
Steve, I have been pouring over David Wong’s “Travelers Gun & Knife Law Book” offered on Alan’s site. I can’t find anything there to contradict my thoughts. I am surprised no one quoted any of his work till you brought it up. And yes, the WY version would be much appreciated.
FDNY, check out www.gunlaws.com a lot of Boston’s books are available there as well as current clear text on individual state gun laws.
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What has not been made perfectly clear to me yet is when I travel into WY, as a non-resident, I plan to OC, my current state allows permit-less OC. By “law” I think I am good to go then as I meet the requirements of both home and guest state. Does anyone see any LEGAL problems with that? (I highlighted legal to attempt to keep the agreed upon ethical problems from being repeated.)
No, you will not have any problems carrying openly in Wyoming, resident or not. There is not one word in the Wyoming statutes that even mentions open carry. It's legal. Quit worrying. :)
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Thanks
;D
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Hi All. Will be visiting in a few weeks and will be bringing my little Glock 19. I will be open carrying while in Wyoming, which will be a very new experience for me. Back here in the PRNY, I went through HELL getting my pistol permit. It's restricted to being with me only in my home or back and forth to the range. It took 5 months for the paper work to come back. My permit is only good for 5 years. Although I was only in the county for about one year, I needed (4) character references from people that knew me at least (4) years that lived IN the county. Let me tell you that was an ordeal, but I was creative and got it done, legitimately. I had to convince (2) liberals to vouch for me, and they did so despite being adamantly opposed to firearm ownership.
I went to Porcfest in NH back in 2009, and it was surreal seeing so many people OCing. I didn't think to bring my gun at the time because the restrictions placed on me by the PRNY really made me quite timid. As I said, I will open carry in Wyoming, and I know it will be weird for me at first. Even for people that are experienced shooters, coming from such a restrictive state and visiting a truly free state is a surreal experience, that's all that I can say. I'm sure there's an unstated etiquette that goes along with OCing, and I only hope any faux pas I commit will be easily laughed off. With the Glock I never carry (when camping on my land up in the mountains) with a round in the chamber since it doesn't have a conventional, mechanical safety.
I look forward to visiting Wyoming and hope to meet as many of you as I can. Coming from a place where LEOs are feared and hated and going to a place where it seems they are POs in spirit will be, hopefully, a wonderful experience.
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With the Glock I never carry (when camping on my land up in the mountains) with a round in the chamber since it doesn't have a conventional, mechanical safety.
The Glock has a most excellent conventional, mechanical safety... namely your trigger finger. As long as you have a decent holster that covers the trigger, It would be best to carry the way the gun is intended to be carried, and in what is ultimately the safest condition for you. If you are simply carrying to make a political statement, then by all means carry chamber empty, hell you might as well carry it unloaded. If you plan on carrying it as a self defense tool, carry it loaded... completely loaded. We could run a few quick drills which might impress upon you the futility in thinking that you will be able to draw and work the slide in a timely manner under stress during a simulated reactive situation. If you are uncomfortable with your trigger finger control during the draw, I would suggest practicing until you are completely comfortable. Practice with a blue gun, or unloaded real gun. Once again, if you have a lazy trigger finger, it will end up where you don't want it when it really matters.
Anyhow, sorry, rant off. I hope you enjoy your trip to Wyoming! Welcome.
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With the Glock I never carry (when camping on my land up in the mountains) with a round in the chamber since it doesn't have a conventional, mechanical safety.
If you plan on carrying it as a self defense tool, carry it loaded... completely loaded. We could run a few quick drills which might impress upon you the futility in thinking that you will be able to draw and work the slide in a timely manner under stress during a simulated reactive situation.
I would be very, very much interested in learning from anyone willing to teach. Carrying is something I'm not accustomed to doing at all. I would love to go take a practical defense class while I'm out there. All I've had is the NRA safety class in order to appease the gubbermint minions I was qualified/worthy to own firearm... Please rant! I truly want to learn. I'm not going to carry specifically to make a political statement. On my land here I have to worry about mama bear and cubs and packs of coyotes and your usual featherless bipeds. Out there I think there are probably some serious 4 legged predators that can ruin my trip if I do something really stupid! So that's at least half the impetus for bringing by little friend.
Sincerely
B
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In the summer of 1966, the Army saw fit to train me as a tank crewman, the equipment for which then included the M1911A1 .45 pistol and the M3/M3A1 .45 *greasegun* submachinegun, among other novelties. When I came out of my Advanced Individual Training at the Armor School, I had a shiny new expert's badge for *tank weapons* and *pistol* to go with the expert rating I had earned with the M14 rifle when I went through Basic. I pretty much figured at that p[oint that I knew what I was doing with a .45 auto; I'd often shot my dad's old Air Corps .45, so I figured I was pretty good.
Until I got to my new unit, where I found out just how much I didn't know. The 70th Armor was [and still is] the oldest and most decorated independent tank unit in the US Army; they made 3 amphibious landings during WWII, and were the Yank outfit that linked up after D-Day with the Airborne advance units still fighting when the 70th's tanks rolled up. Korea was pretty much the same deal: the 70th's tank companies with 90mm gun Pershings got *lent out* to the Cav units whose M24 light tanks main gun rounds were bouncing off the Soviet-supplied T34s just like they had with Panthers and Tigers 5 years previously. So we had high standards to meet.
We relearned EVERYTHING about the M1911: how to kill someone with it without firing a shot, how to kill ourselves with it- not an inconsequential consideration if you've ever seen a tank burn with a crew inside- how to use it for a bottle opener, how to detail strip it down to each and every one of its component parts and reassemble them correctly.
And then we relearned how to shoot the M1911, including firing the .45 pistol qualification course from the drivers and loaders hatches of five tanks parked on the pistol range. We fired off around 4000 rounds- 4 of the .50 caliber-sized ammo cans of ammo worth- of .45 ammo in the course of relearning on how to use the pistol at ranges from two feet [a bad guy on the back deck of the tank behind the turret] to about 200 yards, about as far as a .45 is generally effective. We also learned about some of the exceptions.
Later in life I attended a couple of *handgun schools,* including, among other things, personal instruction from Ray Chapman and Col. Jeff Cooper when they were alive and teaching.
I've got a .45 Commander built by Armand Swenson, actually a lightweight Commander slide he fitted to a M1911 frame he shortened to Commander length for me, before Colt began to offer the Combat Commander around 1970. Neverytheless, it's a treasured heirloom now, a reminder of the days when we were still hacking around to find out what worked and what doesn't. My most usual carry piece now lately is a pretty much plain-Jane 1911, in this example an Argentine M1927 series DGFM, reworked and tuned, but pretty much looking stock, and usually carried in an old M3 tanker's shoulder holster, same as I did as an 18-year-old crewdog 45 years ago.
I've got and use other tools of course; and the factory sights on a Walther P.38 work a little better in the dark with my older eyes than those of a GI M1911A1 generally do. I like Glocks and SIGs and Springfield XDs, several of each of which I've owned and tried.
But when it comes time to go out and face the possibility of another of the three lethal fights in which a handgun was my working tool rather than something more authoritative, it's most generally a M1911A1 that's along with me. We get along just fine, and after all these years, we understand each other.
And if at any time you'd care to learn some of that which I've picked up about the M1911 .45 while you're in Wyoming, by all means, I'd be glad to show you.
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And if at any time you'd care to learn some of that which I've picked up about the M1911 .45 while you're in Wyoming, by all means, I'd be glad to show you.
Archy: Are you now in WY? If so, please let us know...would love to meet you! :)
Kelly
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In the summer of 1966, the Army saw fit to train me as a tank crewman, the equipment for which then included the M1911A1 .45 pistol and the M3/M3A1 .45 *greasegun* submachinegun, among other novelties.
And if at any time you'd care to learn some of that which I've picked up about the M1911 .45 while you're in Wyoming, by all means, I'd be glad to show you.
First off I want to thank you for your kind offer, which I have every intention of taking you up on! Me and the Mrs. will be in up in Weston County in 15 days, but who's counting?
My father was drafted into WW2 and he was 2nd Lt. and a Tanker. He was in platoon of Tanks attached to an infantry division (I'm ashamed to say I don't remember if it was the 76th or 77th or 176th or 177th but he was actually with other's as well) and he said the last place anyone wanted to be was in an American tank. He said everybody had better tanks. The Americans just had a lot more of them. He didn't talk much about the war or at least in great detail. But he did say that he could "button up an American tank" if that's a term, I that that's the term he used anyway, himself on foot. He told be about the horror of artillery shells that pierced armor and never came out. He was with the 101st Airborn in Belgium. He crossed the bridge at Remagen right after the 9th Armored, and he was in Ebensee Austria when the notorious Nazi work camp was liberated. He had a reputation for being able to take out church steeples from 7 miles away with artillery (I guess to knock out enemy FOs.) Somewhere I still have his rangefinder. He actually liberated a German one in France one that was much better and used that for much of the war, so he said.
The best advice he ever gave me was "don't join the military." He said I was not the type to take orders from some 21 year old snot-nosed 2nd liutennant. He did make me sign up for the selective service though. He marched me right down to the post office on either my 17th or 18th birthday, I forget. He got tired of the military and denied a tempting promotion to captain if he would only go to Korea. He told them instead to take a hike. He was still pissed because he got reprimanded and nearly sued by the govt because he ditched some kind of plow thing on the fromt of his tank that was slowing him down once he got through the hedgerows in France. The best picture I have of him is an old black & white of him in uniform with his 1911 right at his side taken in St. Wolfgang Germany.
Thanks for reminding me of what are actually some of the better memories I have of him. He was a hard man that had a hard life.
Mama said she was going to round up some of the clan when we were in town, so I am hoping that we will meet then, else I will make it a point to meet with you somewhere if you have the time. We'll be in Weston county from Saturday 8/4 to at least Tuesday night 8/7.
Kind Regards,
B
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And if at any time you'd care to learn some of that which I've picked up about the M1911 .45 while you're in Wyoming, by all means, I'd be glad to show you.
Archy: Are you now in WY? If so, please let us know...would love to meet you! :)
Kelly
Not yet. Got a small legal matter to get out of the way [witness, not defendant] which should cleared up one way or the other in about 6 weeks. I can't begin to tell you how annoyed I am that it came at the time that it did, but the payoff [happily, not money] may, MAYBE might be worth it.
Details once I make it back to the Cowboy state.