Energy Rates and TV costs

[manfromnevada]

Remember Obama's famous statement:
"Under MY plan, electricity rates will NECESSARILY SKYROCKET."

I think he's pretty clear on that one . . . .

Mac

[Crappiewy]

As Niven & Pournell so enjoyably pointed out in their book "Fallen Angels", "Global Warming" from pollution is likely the only reason we haven't frozen to death already.

Great read, and you can download the E-Book free from baen.com's "Free Library"

I know both Larry and Jerry. Been years since Ive seen them but Jerry is a very left leaning guy. Good writer but verry liberal and at least when I knew him he was very much the "Left Leaning Enviromentalist" All for more govermental control.

Just re read Lucifiers Hammer and you will see what I mean.

[Old Ironsights]

As Niven & Pournell so enjoyably pointed out in their book "Fallen Angels", "Global Warming" from pollution is likely the only reason we haven't frozen to death already.

Great read, and you can download the E-Book free from baen.com's "Free Library"

I know both Larry and Jerry. Been years since Ive seen them but Jerry is a very left leaning guy. Good writer but verry liberal and at least when I knew him he was very much the "Left Leaning Enviromentalist" All for more govermental control.

Just re read Lucifiers Hammer and you will see what I mean.

Well, "Fallen Angles" represents AlGore's Wet Dream of EnviroFacist control - to the extent of outlawing Science Fiction because it's too Technological". (Fairies & Fantasy books are OK...)

So I dunno what JP might have been thinking when he wrote it, but it sure isn't a pro-Goob/Progressive book...

[soma]

Back to the point.  It has been stated that electricity rates are around 0.055 USD at this time, per killowatt hour.  Now, my more important question is, where in Wyoming is this, is it uniform across the entire area?  It it a particular company?  Is this the final bill, or do they also slap another 30 or 40 bucks worth of "logistics" costs and such, to pad the cost up to about 1.25 USD /kwh ?  Out here its .43/kwh but after padding, it becomes 80 cents more per kwh.  Hence my question.

[jscottdavis04]

Energy rates are still regulated by the state in Wyoming, so it's uniform across the board. I'm pretty sure the whole state is serviced by Rocky Mountain Power... but I'm thinking there might be a few co-ops near Sheridan area? I know Montana has a bunch of co-ops. I used to work for PPL in PA and I know PPL Corp generates electricity in Montana but they sell it to co-ops for distribution. I don't have an electric bill handy, but there are a few "administrative fees" tacked on... I believe the actual cost of generation is around .022 and it comes out to around .055 with everything else added on. So, .055 would be the final cost per kWh.

To contrast that, PPL Corp charges around .06 for generation in Pennsylvania and the distribution and transmission charges add roughly another .04 per kWh. (No, I didn't get an employee discount.) Basically, it's half the cost of what most people pay out East. I was pretty happy to get my first bill from Rocky Mountain Power!

[manfromnevada]

Energy rates are still regulated by the state in Wyoming, so it's uniform across the board. I'm pretty sure the whole state is serviced by Rocky Mountain Power... but I'm thinking there might be a few co-ops near Sheridan area? I know Montana has a bunch of co-ops. I used to work for PPL in PA and I know PPL Corp generates electricity in Montana but they sell it to co-ops for distribution. I don't have an electric bill handy, but there are a few "administrative fees" tacked on... I believe the actual cost of generation is around .022 and it comes out to around .055 with everything else added on. So, .055 would be the final cost per kWh.

To contrast that, PPL Corp charges around .06 for generation in Pennsylvania and the distribution and transmission charges add roughly another .04 per kWh. (No, I didn't get an employee discount.) Basically, it's half the cost of what most people pay out East. I was pretty happy to get my first bill from Rocky Mountain Power!

Sorry to say, you are dead wrong on most counts.
The price is not uniform.
There are many utility companies in WY. I never heard of Rocky Mountain Power.
Ours is a co-op in rural Crook County.
However, you're right in that all electric companies are regulated.

Soma said:
Back to the point.  It has been stated that electricity rates are around 0.055 USD at this time, per killowatt hour.  Now, my more important question is, where in Wyoming is this, is it uniform across the entire area?  It it a particular company?  Is this the final bill, or do they also slap another 30 or 40 bucks worth of "logistics" costs and such, to pad the cost up to about 1.25 USD /kwh ?  Out here its .43/kwh but after padding, it becomes 80 cents more per kwh.  Hence my question.

OK. Here's my latest bill from Powder River Energy Corp (PRECorp) in the Crook County area:
KWH consumed: 1,789 (all electric house, 1700 sq ft upstairs and same in full basement, air to air heat pump, ave hi temp in period:35F, ave low temp: 12F)

KWH Energy charge: $81.77
Basic charge (for system upkeep and maintenance): $17.50
Power cost adjustment (for the variable cost of energy between PUC approvals): $22.39
Capital Credit Retirement (if they don't use all the money they give it back): -$4.29
Tax: $7.30
Total: $124.67

That makes the TOTAL cost of $0.06969 per KWH. Roughly 7 cents.

Most other communities across the nation pay THREE TIMES that amount.
In fact, some places, notably Kalifornia, use a "progressive" rate (how surprising) that goes up the more you use (a reverse volume discount).

To light my house, heat my hot water, dry my clothes, run my computer, run my well pump, in the middle of December in NE Wyoming is a real deal for this amount. Anyone got a better rate than this? I doubt it.

Mac

[jscottdavis04]

It's true that Wyoming is one of the lowest (if not the lowest, actually) for utility rates in the country. PPL also charges a progressive rate in PA. I got a lot of flack from customers with large houses for that one!

I haven't looked at the service territory map since we moved here, but I was thinking that things out your way were handled by co-ops, as well--I just wasn't sure. I was thinking the majority of Wyoming was serviced by RMP (a subsidiary of PacifiCorp): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Power It turns out that only the Western portions of Wyoming have RMP and the rest have something else--I wouldn't imagine it's all co-ops, though. Those are somewhat rare in the distribution industry.

This thread has just reminded me to pay my electric bill and since I'm not shy, I'll also share:

461 kWh came to $41.65. It is roughly .04 per kWh for me, but the basic fee with Rocky Mountain Power is $20 per month, so your actual cost per kWh will vary depending on your usage, as I believe the $20 is a flat fee no matter what the usage is. My actual cost for energy was $18.94. In addition to the basic fee of $20 and my bill of 18.94, I paid 0.73 for an "efficiency" charge and 5% sales tax.

To put this current bill into perspective, my average daily usage has more than doubled since August (204 kWh). In August my total charges for usage were $8.39, plus the $20 basic fee, 0.53 for efficiency and sales tax.

[MamaLiberty]

I belong to the Powder River co-op. I have a 1700 sq/ft all electric home (one wood stove). In December I used 876 kWh.
Energy charge was 44.92
Basic charge -         17. 50
Power cost adj.        10.97
Capital credit            -3.17
tax                             3.67

Total paid                 73.99

The capital credit usually pays most of the tax.

In 2005, in So. Calif. I had a 1200 sq/ft house, forced air propane furnace, stove and water heater. Electric powered well and water cooler, no air conditioner. My average electric bill for the last 6 months was close to $200. The propane cost a yearly average of about $50. to $75. a month. I don't remember when, but at one point the propane price was only a few pennies less than unleaded gasoline price.

[craigercj]

I was usually between 8 to 9 cents/kwh after fees and everything with rocky mountain power.

[manfromnevada]

@jscott:
I know two FSW folks in Newcastle and they both have DIFFERENT electric companies!
One handles inside the city limits and the other handles outside.
And I think they charge very different rates as well.

Mac

[soma]

Whoah!! Again.  Power bill difference alone would pay moving costs after two years.  That's presuming I run everything off of the mains.  Seems interesting, thanks.

[manfromnevada]

There's a 4 letter word that I can use to explain the cost of electrical energy in Wyoming.
Ready?
COAL
Yup, that evil coal. That destroyer of life. That evil substance that is now submerging entire islands in the blink of an eye! And sending those cute cuddly polar bears to the bottom of the Arctic. Yes, there's soooo much CO2 in Wyoming that you can practically taste it as it obscures the sun. No matter that it is a tasteless and colorless gas. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

But rest assured, Obama and his gang are working hard to change things. Taxes. Regulation. Credits. Penalties.
As I've quoted him before, Obama says:"Under my plan electric rates will necessarily skyrocket."

Mac

[jscottdavis04]

There's a 4 letter word that I can use to explain the cost of electrical energy in Wyoming.
Ready?
COAL
Yup, that evil coal. That destroyer of life. That evil substance that is now submerging entire islands in the blink of an eye! And sending those cute cuddly polar bears to the bottom of the Arctic. Yes, there's soooo much CO2 in Wyoming that you can practically taste it as it obscures the sun. No matter that it is a tasteless and colorless gas. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

But rest assured, Obama and his gang are working hard to change things. Taxes. Regulation. Credits. Penalties.
As I've quoted him before, Obama says:"Under my plan electric rates will necessarily skyrocket."

Mac

lol! Is that why the air is so hard to breathe here? I just thought it was the altitude.    But just think of all the "green collar" jobs that will be created when Obama shuts down all the coal-fired plants here and in surrounding states. 

I knew of Powder River from my previous job--just wasn't sure what their territory was. PPL Montana co-owns the Colstrip (evil, coal-fired) generation plant in Montana that Powder River buys some of its energy from. To be honest, I'd never even heard of co-ops before I worked at PPL and I've never lived in a place where I bought my energy from a co-op. But they seem to be pretty popular out here, especially in Montana--I know most of the state is serviced by co-ops, whereas most states have one giant corporation that services the whole place: for example, all of Utah is serviced by Rocky Mountain Power.

Slightly back on topic, I'm wondering if the basic fee from RMP is tiered in some way, because my bill actually says "Basic charge-1." Obviously my usage is low enough that I'd be on the lowest tier if there were any. The company's website is completely useless when it comes to this type of thing and I'm simply not interested enough to call their call center and ask! I wonder if anyone else on here in RMP territory can help me out with this hypothesis...

[Paul Bonneau]

We had Bill Cody Ranch on RMP. They had the usual charge for electricity (a per-electron charge so to speak  ) and a demand charge. Large users are charged according to the peak demand in any one period; in our case the 5 minutes (or so) in the month, when all the electric heaters on the ranch happened to turn on at the same time. It was about half the bill. I don't know about other tiers. Some utilities have a reverse  rate structure (the more electricity you use, the more you are charged per kilowatt-hour) but I don't recall seeing anything like that.

[manfromnevada]

Years ago, some utilities had a "minimum" amount to protect them from owners of empty houses or ultra low usage. Pahrump, NV, my old home town, had a lot of snow birds that would leave all summer.

But that seems to be replaced now with a "basic charge" to defray the cost of maintaining the lines and running the system. The basic charge at PRECorp is fixed, at least for residential users. As Paul said, big users also have a demand charge to defray the costs of having a huge surplus capacity of generation that is seldom used.

(as an aside, that is one of the real problems with solar and wind energy generation. In the future they may well supply a substantial amount of energy, but when the wind stops or the sun goes away for a few days, the good old fossil fuel plants have to step up to the plate and produce as much as they would have without the alternative energy sources. Hence, lots of capacity still required but very little income to help pay for it)

The basic charge is like the $50 per year I have to pay to rent my 500 gallon propane tank from the distributor. Whether I use any propane or not (still on my original fill after more than 3 years) I have to pay for the usage of their equipment.

Mac